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Post by captcapsize on Sept 11, 2015 20:44:32 GMT -5
You would be welcome to come and check this out with me but I just checked your location. You are so far from here you might as well be in another country. We all would like to know more about your 22 reloading efforts, keep us posted.
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Post by oldnavychief on Oct 17, 2015 20:34:29 GMT -5
Thank you for posting this very interesting kit and to all corresponding replies. A friend mentioned that he knew someone who reloaded 22s. I said, no, no you must mean 223 or whatever. Hope 22s. So I was fascinated by this post and replies.
I'm very familiar with 22 production. I was fortunate to have visited a major manufacturer of 22 ammunition. Relevant to this string is....accuracy. 22 ammo is stamped out by huge machines which are feed a coil lead string, brass and powder. The machine goes into high gear and runs almost continuously. As it punches out 22s, those 22s are culled into batches/lots. As expected, no matter how well the machines are made and maintained there are always slight variables that come into play. The most accurate and expensive lots are given the manufacturer's top of the line brand name and cost that goes with it. How do they grade top competition rounds?? They actually shoot samples from each lot. You guessed it....the most accurate earn the top ammo name for that manufacturer and the serious competition shooters pay for it. The next most accurate rounds go into the next level brand name for that manufacturer.Competition ammunition manufacturers brag up their manufacturing methods and materials.The top lot batches become the pricey, but worth it to the top competitive shooter. Top competition rifle shooters sponsored shooters get the best of the best. Anyone can get this same top quality ammo. They just have to pay for it. So why does it cost so much? Because those machines are each making a mountain of 22 ammo and only the tip of the pyramid is worthy of a manufacturer's top grade. Most of the pyramid is the average fodder for the average shooter. While most every round to the average shooter seems and is very accurate, it isn't for the top competitive shooters. The top competitive rifle shooters usually warm up to the distributor of the brand of 22 ammo they want to shoot. These guys ask for a couple boxes from a lot/batch graded and numbered case of this top grade ammo and shoot it. If that lot/batch does well in their specific rifle...they buy the entire case by lot/batch number.
Now, admittedly this string appears to concern itself more with a basic needs, survival or economy shooter. The reason I mentioned the above was to point out how 22 ammo accuracy in a specific gun varies and to offer a suggestion to those trying to achieve the most consistency (reliable accuracy). Hand loading large bore rifle rounds competitive shooters buy the best made projectiles (consistency in weight) and then break expensive boxes of bullets into about six to ten sub-batches using a digital scale. Projectiles of the same,nearly identical weight as possible. Next the best (most consistent) brass is also broken down into groups with a digital scale (case thickness = weight = thickness of brass = release pressure) and finally they measure as precisely as possible each powder charge to be the same. I don't know of any but black powder which would be particularly corrosive.
So here's the tip; A hand loader of home made 22s would be well served by using a digital scale to weigh each lead projectile and break them into groups.
Now my question; Knowing of an entire primer plant explosion, do these 22 loaders combine some mix of chemicals to make their own priming agent?
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Post by Jack on Oct 18, 2015 8:18:55 GMT -5
ONC: From what I've read, the kit comes with two separate chemicals, neither of which is explosive by itself. After cleaning the old priming compound out of the used cases with a tool they provide, you mix the two together with acetone and then pack it into the rims. The acetone evaporates overnight and the remainder of reloading can continue.
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Post by neilrr on Oct 18, 2015 11:45:10 GMT -5
Sorry for not getting back on this issue sooner, but I have been out of town for the past 10 days and had limited computer and/or Wi-Fi access. I finally received the 22 reloading kit including the 22 S and 22 LR combination bullet mold and other components. All items received were as advertised.
I also purchased the primer compound kit. The primer kit contains 4 separate chemicals and a plastic dipper with a large and small scoop. The 4 chemical are not labeled except for L: black colored powder, L2: yellow colored powder and S: 2 packages of white colored powder, one with a smaller quantity than the other. There are very detailed safety and mixing directions for these 4 chemicals that are to be combined with your supplied acetone to form the primer material.
I went to a local gun show this weekend to look for 22 bullets that would fit the mold, but found none. I also tried various web sites with no success so far, but will continue to look. If I can not find any pre-cast 22 bullets that will match the mold I will need to get some additional supplies to cast the bullets from scratch for test firing. As I progress I will keep all informed.
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Post by oldnavychief on Oct 18, 2015 12:04:58 GMT -5
Jack: Thanks. Very interesting. Sounds like same as commercial manufacturing. There s plenty of 22 out there, but if people think and experiment even the fabulous 22 projectile can be improved...somehow. Perhaps someone will discover a new generation of 22 bullets while having fun doing it. Thanks again.
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Post by oldnavychief on Oct 19, 2015 16:38:33 GMT -5
Neilrr; Thank you too for your follow up post. So are you saying that you had hoped to have found precast 22s which you would then press into the provided mold? I have no knowledge of casting or pressing castings in a mold. That'll be interesting to learn.
Will be watching for follow on posts to read your progress.
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Post by neilrr on Oct 20, 2015 6:58:54 GMT -5
I need to clarify my last post. I did find pre-cast 22 bullets at the gun show, but they did not fit the mold I received with the 22 reloading kit. The manufacturer of the 22 reloading kit advised that you will probably not find pre-cast 22 bullets that will fit their mold exactly specifically for the crimping of the 22 bullet to the case. Thus the only solution is to cast your own bullets using the mold they supply with the kit. The crimp line on the pre-cast 22 bullets at the gun show did not match up exactly with the crimp line in the mold. Thus unless I can find pre-cast that match better, I will need to cast my own bullets. Not a big deal, but is something that will need to be put on my schedule of things to do. I seem to be working more around the house and on gunsmithing projects now that I am retired then when I was working for a living. However, I am enjoying myself much more and doing things I (and the wife) want to do.
Anyone interested in reloading including casting your own bullets should get the following book: The Definitive Guide for Novice to Expert, "The ABCs of Reloading", edited by C. Rodney James. This is an excellent starters book and gives sufficient details on the "how to" and "what equipment to purchase" including casting of bullets.
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Post by d4rk51d3 on Oct 30, 2015 17:15:15 GMT -5
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Post by neilrr on Dec 29, 2015 13:51:02 GMT -5
Well I finally had some time to get back to this .22 reloading kit. I tried several bullet suppliers to obtain a .22 bullet that could be used with this kit's mold in lieu of casting bullets, without success. The commercially available bullets were too large in diameter to go back into the fired cases without belling the case mouth, i.e. resizing and/or too long to fit into the kit's mold for proper seating/crimping in once fired cases. As warned by the supplier, the kit's mold is designed to only seat/crimp molded bullets produced by the mold. I did produce several reloads using cast lead bullets produced from the kit's mold along with the supplied primer power mix and powder. I followed the kits instructions for mixing and evenly distributing the primer and seating/crimping bullets in once fired cases that were previously cleaned, but not resized. The six rounds that I produced with the kit were loaded into my 24 and test fired. Half of them fired the first time and two of the remaining three rounds fired after rotating the bullets in the chamber and firing a second time. One round did not fire at all. The misfires are probably caused by how I distributed or did not distribute the primer material evenly, not an easy task. The five rounds that fired hit a target that was 5 yards away. As a test, I also fired six new .22 rounds in the my 24 and all fired the first time at a target 5 yards away.
Summary - the reloading process using this kit requires attention to details and is time consuming to produce a few rounds. You need to use bullets cast from the kit's mold. You need to take care when distributing the primer to ensure first time discharges - definitely not a reliable defensive round. Would I purchase this kit to regularly produce .22 LR ammo, no. Would I purchase this kit as a survival tool when there is no .22 LR ammo available, yes.
Conclusion - The kit is advertised as a survival tool and that is what it is good for.
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blaze
Frequent poster
Posts: 108
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Post by blaze on Dec 29, 2015 17:02:39 GMT -5
Thank you neilrr for you very good review (and experience) of this .22 rimfire reloading kit. As you say not for every day use. Your findings pretty much mirror my experience in reloading the old .32 rimfire ammunition some years ago.
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Post by Jack on Dec 29, 2015 23:58:43 GMT -5
Blaze,
Cool. I had not known one could practicably reload .32RF. I would say the difference is that (despite current periodic shortages) .22 is being made by the millions each day but .32RF is unavailable anywhere I'm aware of. To me, that would make reloading the latter worthwhile vice jist an interesting curiosity.
Did you come up with the .32 reload yourself or did somebody make a kit like the one in question?
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Post by vancmike on Dec 30, 2015 14:20:09 GMT -5
Neilr, I've been following this thread, just because (I've been buying 22 LR ammo on sale for years, and ended up....inadvertently....with a stash).
I was most pleased that you were able to write the review. That means your fingers were still intact. And that's good!
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Post by neilrr on Dec 30, 2015 16:55:17 GMT -5
Vancmike, I was glad to have finally completed this thread, it took quite a long time. I retired from my 42+ year job managing repairs to power plants and turned my love for guns into a full time retirement job when I obtained my gunsmithing certification. To tell the truth gunsmithing is much more fun and rewarding, like tackling the 22 ammo reloading gig. My newest toy is a Chiappa X-Caliber 22LR/12ga with a set of 8 inserts, the inserts is what really got to me, but that adventure will be for a future post.
Wishing all a Happy New Year.
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