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Post by Galvinator77 on Dec 4, 2015 22:06:01 GMT -5
Rounds of all 3 calibers will fully seat and I can lock the barrels closed without forcing anything. The internal chamber wall appear to be smooth. It looks to me that the chamber bore is larger than the spec for the 3 calibers. I have not taken a chamber casting yet. I need to order a kit from Brownell's and take a casting. Will report back after I accomplish it.
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Post by Galvinator77 on Dec 6, 2015 14:59:22 GMT -5
Tried to respond yesterday but looks like it did not go through. I czn chamber all 3 calibers and lock the barrels closed. chamber walls look smooth. will include chamber cast kit in next Brownell's order
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Post by candoo on Dec 7, 2015 0:39:16 GMT -5
Many thanks to Big Kelly, The pistol grip that he had no use for is perfect on my 357Max/20 and going to make a perfect grouse getter on the side by side.
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Post by neilrr on Dec 7, 2015 19:00:10 GMT -5
Galvinator - while you are waiting for the casting material try the following to see if you have excess head space: put a single layer of masking tape over the base of the round, insert it into the chamber, and try to lock up the gun. If the gun locks up easily try another layer of tape and continue adding layers of tape until the gun will not lock up. Let me know how many layers of tape it takes before the gun locks up hard.
Good luck, neilrr
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Post by jrguerra on Dec 8, 2015 4:57:56 GMT -5
Many thanks to Big Kelly, The pistol grip that he had no use for is perfect on my 357Max/20 and going to make a perfect grouse getter on the side by side. Very nice ! That appears to be a handy 'truck gun'. Big kelly was very generous to offer that - well done sir !
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Post by Galvinator77 on Dec 9, 2015 21:14:07 GMT -5
Used "FrogTape' brand green painters masking tape on a 357 Maximum round. Seven layers of tape barrels would still lock up, when put an eighth layer on they would not lock.
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Post by neilrr on Dec 10, 2015 0:03:30 GMT -5
Galvinator -
You probably know what headspace is, but I will define it here for you so that we are on the same page: headspace on your O/U combo gun is defined as the distance between the breach face of the locked up or closed breach and the base of the fully seated round within the chamber. The round is fully seated when the round is seated as deep within the chamber as possible. Zero headspace occurs when the breach face is against the back of a fully seated round’s case and there is zero clearance between these two surfaces. Example: if instead of zero clearance you had 0.010” then you would have 0.010” head space. In your case with the masking tape having a thickness between 0.003" - 0.004" then 7 layers of tape would indicate a headspace equal to 0.021" - 0.028" with the breach locked up on a fully seated round. For this type of firearm the recommended maximum headspace is 0.015" and anything in excess should be corrected.
Having excessive headspace and an oversized chamber can cause the following two issues:
1.) A "horizontal case split” is where the case tears partially or completely in half horizontally. This can happen if the case stretches 0.012” or more due to head space in excess of 0.012”. As long as the firearm is breeched tightly, even with a full or partial case tear there should be little if any gas leakage because the torn portion of the case will remain seated within the chamber.
2.) A round can also develop a “dog bone” type failure. A dog bone failure is an opening or failure of the case’s wall that looks like a dog bone. The dog bone will also have gas leakage marks around the failure. This type of failure is not caused by head space. It is caused by the case over expanding during discharge due to; an under sized case for the chamber of the firearm, or a case that is not ductile enough to expand properly when discharged, or a chamber that is at least 0.012” or greater in diameter than the round that is being discharged. Lastly, if the case has been thinned from reloading or there is a flaw in the case then a failure might occur with less of a diameter difference.
You can have a combination of a "dog bone" and a partial or complete "horizontal case split" if the chamber is too large by 0.012” or more in diameter and the firearm has head space greater than 0.012”. Based upon your various posts this seems to be the case with this combo gun. I suggest that you have this combo gun evaluated by a professional gunsmith.
I know that this was a long reply, but I hope it was helpful.
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Post by vancmike on Dec 10, 2015 18:42:53 GMT -5
I went to a gun show in north central Pennsylvania over the weekend looking for a 223/20 gauge. I did not find what I wanted, but was very surprised to come across eight 24's for sale. Normally I see one or two at a show. The eight 24's were broken down as follows: - Four 222/20, all in good condition, including two with scopes, at $750 plus out the door.
- Three 22mag/410, all in fair to good condition, at $650 plus out the door.
- One 357/20, in very good condition with a scope, at $900 plus out the door.
None of the dealers would budge on their prices including a dealer that I met three weeks ago at another Pennsylvania gun show. He still had all two of his 24's (one 222/20 and one 22/410) that had not sold previously - his prices were the same as before. That same dealer recently picked up a 30-30/20 in good condition at an estate sale for $500 and it went right into his 24 collection - lucky guy. Neil's report shows how prices vary by geography. Those 24s would sit in a gun shop for months in the PacNW, and finally sell for about 1/3 less. BTW, Neil, you indicated you were looking for a .223/20. You might cruise through some previous threads; you'll find you pay a premium for a .223 barrel that has a 1-14" twist, which means you'll end up shooting .222 loads (i.e., 45-55 gr. bullets) through your .223. I wrestled with this issue for a while. I bought a .222 with the idea of re-chambering to .223, but it shot so well, I bought some .222 dies and am loading for it. And in all candor, since it's a single shot, I rarely shoot more than 10-20 rounds per outing. Probably could be buying retail, but I can't bring myself to do that!
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Post by Galvinator77 on Dec 12, 2015 9:11:39 GMT -5
Neilrr, Thanks for the info! Thinking it has an oversize chamber. There are no horizontal split case failures. If the case fails (always .38 spl or .357) they all have a vertical spit in the case. The .357 Max casings don't split but are stuck in the chamber so hard that the case is ruined through the effort to extract. Will find a gunsmith in Northern VA area. Thanks Again!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2015 11:04:03 GMT -5
Guess I have been pretty lucky. Bought my first S-E 22lr-20 in 2003 at Friendship, IN for $175. My second was a few years later an I scored an excellent condition V 30-30/20 for $399 on the broker. The most I paid for one was a like-new 357mag/20. I don't remember the exact out the door price, but in the end, I know paid a little over $600 for it. Couple years ago during a shameful moment of unspeakable weakness, When it seemed like whole world either finally discovered, or finally rediscovered the 24's I tried to sell the 357 for $690 on the GB based on some math I did to make sure I didn't lose any net money on it. I was shocked when I watched 2 other lesser V-D 357's go for a good bit more than my like-new 357 buy it now price of 690. They would be listed right before or after mine on all the same relevant search terms. Couldn't get what I wanted for it despite my disbelief So I took it down. now I cringe when I think I was willing to let it go. At the time I really needed the money. Definitely a blessing in disguise to me now. I think I'm on board with a few other opinions on here---the 357/20 is the ultimate do-it-all survival gun. If it wasn't in such right out of the box condition, id tap it for chokes and ream it for 357 max. Still might!
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