|
Post by deadeye on Dec 27, 2014 15:30:33 GMT -5
I have a 24 (barrel labeled 24 series S 22/20ga) that snaps closed like it should BUT can be partially opened (to an un-fireable position). I find nothing loose or worn. What can cause this and how is it corrected? Here is a pic showing the gap - it will close fully but there is "play" in it that allows the gap you see in the picture.
|
|
|
Post by Mr. Polecat on Dec 27, 2014 23:04:08 GMT -5
Yikes... My first thought is that something has some dirt/rust in it that is keeping the locking lug thing from popping all the way out to engage the lug on the barrel. But it looks like a really clean gun.... I'd think if the hinge was just worn out, you'd have excessive headspace but wouldn't be able to rock it open like that. Does the serial number on the barrel match the one on the receiver (assuming they are both marked)? Maybe someone pulled some kind of barrel swap-a-roo?
|
|
|
Post by deadeye on Dec 28, 2014 10:52:29 GMT -5
No numbers to match on the barrel but I do know that it was functioning perfectly before the owner took it apart for cleaning and now has this. I see nothing wrong anywhere. It snaps shut like it should but then you can pull on the barrel and get the gap. Since everything is pinned and there are no adjustments to anything, I don't see how it can happen but I am not very familiar with the 24 and hoping someone here has seen this before.
Getting ready to tear it apart and see if there is anything that can be put in upside down or reversed that may cause it but nothing comes to mind that would.
|
|
|
Post by david on Dec 28, 2014 11:31:09 GMT -5
I would look for not enough travel in the locking bolt.
David
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2014 12:57:58 GMT -5
I had a 24 S-E that did this. It cause misfiring in both barrels and I spent 8 years on it, and developed a "temporary but repeated solution" before I sold it. I would get ~1/2 the gap you get. I took it apart and put it back together 1000 times. I bought a sack of relevant parts and swapped them out in multiple configurations. My only relief came via tapping/slightly bending the hook that catches the forearm, back in the direction of the receiver. By bending the hook back, the forearm forced a slightly tighter lock up, closing gap between te barrel and the receiver allowing better fire pin penetration into both the 20 and 22 primer. Of course I was laughed at, scoffed at and given funny looks when I presented this solution to buddies and others but what folks didn't understand was that, that simple solution was the culmination of 8 years of parts, diagrams, gun smiths, $$$, advice etc. I had tried it all. This goofy redneck jerry rigged solution was the ONLY solution. After a few years however, the hook/notch bent back more toward the muzzle and ultimately the 22 resumed with the light strikes. A prudent person would expect this to happen, and after it started misfiring again, I repeated the solution and solved the problem yet again. I had established a small 24 collection in the mean time and sold it to a guy in MI on a helluva deal, who swore he could get it firing permanently. I never heard from him again. In any case, a you might want to try pulling the forearm off an finding a way to use the firearm to force a tighter lock up. And Don't worry, the people telling you that it's a bush leauge solution aren't the ones fighting your battle and won't be the ones with money tied up in a gun that doesn't fire. One disclaimer, Id Like to make on that is that I was 100% sure the locking bolt and lock up in General was solid and would not come open upon firing!!! You better make sure too. At least not more than the little gap causing the misfiring issue. Please let me know if you fix your gun or don't. I spent so much time, effort and a little too much $ on this same exact issue to not share my simple solution and take an interest. Hope something works out for you and I hope you'll report back on it. Mike
|
|
|
Post by Mr. Polecat on Dec 28, 2014 20:34:01 GMT -5
Did he put the locking bolt back in upside down (if possible)? On mine, it's a triangular arrangement, that goes into a triangular notch under the barrels. If that bolt/lug/thing can go in upside down, maybe that's got the tolerances messed up? Did he tear it down that far? Does the break open lever return all the way to center when you close it?
|
|
|
Post by neilrr on Dec 29, 2014 7:27:45 GMT -5
deadeye, when you say there is "play" in the gun when it is locked up do you mean that the barrels can be physically moved back and forth when the gun is locked up? I do not know if it is an optical illusion or not, but when the gun is locked up is the top of the barrel even with the top of the receiver? In your picture it looks like the top of the 22 barrel is higher than the top of the receiver. This would mean that the barrels are not seating properly in the receiver. These two components should be even with one another when the gun is locked up closed. As leaf suggests did the previous owner put the gun back together correctly? How far did he go in the disassembly process? The barrels should close tightly on the receiver even without the forearm in place with little if any head space between the barrels and the receiver. The forearm should only be putting sufficient tension on the barrel bites and the receiver lug to prevent the barrel bits from slipping out of the receiver lug when the gun is opened.
|
|
|
Post by deadeye on Dec 29, 2014 9:15:09 GMT -5
Thanks for the info guys. I tried bending the forearm piece as described by Mike but no help there.
I did not take it back apart again to check what was mentioned by leaf as it doesn't appear that the part can be reversed (but I will check again). One thing to note here is that if memory serves me, there used to be a plastic piece on the release lever and I don't find that anywhere (not that it should have done anything but I am reaching for straws here so possibly it did something I didn't realize like hold the lever in a different position?
As for alignment - the gun will snap closed and align perfect BUT you can then move them open a little as seen in the picture.
I have found a way to fix it! For a test, I built up with tape and spacers on the locking lug of the barrel where the release holds it until I took all the play out of it and it locks up nicely with .045". Now I can build up that lug and fix it permanently BUT I am hesitant only in that it was fine before it was taken apart so why would I need to make a change now?
|
|
|
Post by neilrr on Dec 29, 2014 10:33:17 GMT -5
deadeye - has this gun been previously fired with reloads that were possibly overloads? With plastic cases you need to use plastic wads, primers, loads, and powder weight that are specific for that particular plastic case. If a hotter primer and the wrong size plastic wads are used even with the correct load and power weight an overload (over pressure condition) can occur. The gun will not blow up, as it is designed to take a certain amount of over pressure but the overload would stretch the fit up of the barrel bite (barrel lug) and the receiver lug causing head space as you have described. Adding tape, as you have described, on the barrel bite (barrel lug) will compensate for the above described condition.
|
|
|
Post by deadeye on Dec 29, 2014 14:56:02 GMT -5
Nothing but light factory loads - a young girl was using it for her first squirrel hunt (and bagged her limit too).
It was fully functional before it was taken apart so I keep thinking something was put back wrong but I don't see anything that can be put in backwards. It will cock and fire (empty of course). Locks up but there is play as you see in the picture.
I plan to tear into it just got side tracked - still feeling something is not in place properly.
Any tricks to removing the hammer spring?
|
|
|
Post by neilrr on Dec 29, 2014 17:00:39 GMT -5
You can see my previous post on how to disassemble/reassemble the mainspring assembly. This seems to be one of the hardest parts for most people to disassemble/reassemble on the 24. The thread is entitled: Savage24forum.boards.net/thread/591/disassemble-reassemble-main-spring-older 24s
American Gunsmithing Institute (AGI) has a detailed disassemble/reassemble DVD for the Savage Model 24. It is found in their Guntech Volume #50. You can purchase the DVD from their website. I have used this DVD and found it very helpful.
good luck
|
|
|
Post by deadeye on Dec 30, 2014 19:52:49 GMT -5
SOLVED !!!!
I finally took the time to dive in and sure enough, there was a piece in backwards that allowed it to work but not lock fully. Turned it around, did the pin in the spring trick to get that back in place and it locks up perfectly.
Once it was assembled correctly - another problem presented itself - the missing plastic piece that goes on the release is really needed or you can't pull it back far enough to release - this may be why it appeared to be OK with it in backwards - the lever seemed to be much more easily pulled. Now I am on the hunt for a new plastic piece or maybe I will just make something.
Thanks for all the help - if I hadn't found the forum and a bunch of good guys willing to help, it would probably sit quite a while longer.
Dan
|
|
|
Post by Mr. Polecat on Dec 30, 2014 20:11:24 GMT -5
Ohhhh, you've got one of the late-model ones with the break lever in front of the trigger guard?
If so, I am 90% sure that it's the exact same part as they used one the model 9478 single shot shotgun. Numrich probably has the part.
|
|
|
Post by neilrr on Dec 31, 2014 9:29:48 GMT -5
Great work resolving the lockup issue. Just be inquisitive what part was in backwards?
|
|
|
Post by deadeye on Dec 31, 2014 16:00:31 GMT -5
Found one listed at Bob's Gunshop but they are closed until the 5th. Will try to get one from him as it is listed in his schematic as the correct one. If not, I will get one of those from Numrich - it looks like it would work but this 24 doesn't have a hole for a pin to hold it on which the 9478 shows. I can easily drill for one if needed. Oh - the backwards part is listed as assembly part number 5 in the schematic it is the lever and lock up mechanism - it was in backwards and essentially still worked but left some play. If it didn't lock up, it would have been a dead giveaway but since it "seemed" to be working properly - it left doubt as to anything being wrong.
|
|