|
|
Post by bigbear48858 on Jan 13, 2015 14:30:01 GMT -5
I am fairly familiar with the Model 24 growing up my dad had both a 22LR/20ga and a 22mag/20ga that I learned to shoot with. So as I started adding to my gun collection of course I wanted to add a Model 24 or two. I picked up a 24D Series P 22mag/20ga for myself and just love the gun as I use to my dads ol 22mag/20ga. So when a deal on a 30-30/12ga model 24 fell into my lap of course I jumped all over it. I bought the gun thinking its a 24F and didnt think anything more of it. The gun was like brand new, still in the original box, all original paperwork, operators manual and such.
The guy I bought it from claimed he had gotten it from the original owner who had bought the gun new. This original owner said he had only shot the gun twice, 1 shell threw each barrel. I have to believe that story isn't far off as the gun is in like brand new condition, and rifling and bore are spotless. So here it is a year later, I had put the gun in the safe and the original box under my dresser. I was going to throw the box out when I noticed on the end a sticker that says Model 24V and the serial number. So I pull the gun out of the safe and check it, and yup the serial number matches. But, this gun doesn't really look like a 24V? it's a 12ga?? That's when I notice hand written on a sticker on the box "Special Order, page 467 date 11/90. So now my curiosity is peaking.. what makes this a 24V and not a 24F? So I came here to this site as I have in the past and went threw the identification write up to identify my gun. My gun gets all the way down to the 24V/F Transition Model but doesn't completely match any limited info I can find on this model. So I am wondering do these increase in value because they was more of a one off sort of gun?
From what I can find most 24V's and 24V/F's have one thing in common, only center fire rifle over 20ga. This is the first that confused me as mine is a 12ga. My box/paperwork says 24V and serial matches the box and paperwork. The receiver has the cross bolt safety and basic scroll pattern as do the 24F's do but no model number. My barrel only says Model 24, and does not call out V or F. My barrel is 30-30 on top and 12ga under, with removable choke. It also has wood stocks, with retaining screw on the forearm. From the sound of it my gun doesn't seem to follow anything I can find. Does anyone else have a 24V/F Transition?
|
|
|
|
Post by bigkelly on Jan 13, 2015 15:21:55 GMT -5
I'd say you definitely have one of the earliest 24F transitional guns--the wood stock is the give away--nice find!
|
|
|
|
Post by vancmike on Jan 13, 2015 15:23:55 GMT -5
Odell...and others on this site should be helpful. If you haven't already done so, you might go through the sticky on how to identify your Model 24.
ITM, don't throw away that box! It may almost double the value of what you have!
|
|
|
|
Post by winkman on Jan 13, 2015 16:08:34 GMT -5
What you probably have, I am sure, is one of the last 24V's before they transitioned over to the 24F. If I am correct, the gun actually looks more like a 24F, right down to the scroll work on the receiver and the cross bolt safety found on the 24F. The gun probably has hardwood furniture, not walnut, and the blueing is more a dull satin rather than the high gloss bluing found on the older 24V's. It's a 30-30 over 12 gauge and has screw in chokes. The stamping on the gun simply says Savage 24, with no 'V' of 'F' designation, yet the box says Savage 24V. Kinda like this one? Gun (unfired)   Original box with matching serial #  I spoke with an old timer at the Savage Arms factory years ago about this gun, and he verified what I said here. He also said there weren't to many made. |
|
|
|
Post by david on Jan 14, 2015 8:23:44 GMT -5
HEY, That is MY Gun!
Model 24V, Scroll on the receiver, Stinkin crossbolt safety, Wood stock.
Mine is 222/20
Purchased somewhere around 1983 or so.
Why on earth would you put a safety on a hammer gun?
After some use, the stock was scratched up. I removed the finish which was painted on wood grain and re finished it with cherry stain. It doesn't look so good.
Still love the gun and use it when I can.
David
|
|
|
|
Post by bigbear48858 on Jan 14, 2015 8:49:59 GMT -5
Winkman those pics are identical to what my gun is in every detail!!
|
|
|
|
Post by cas on Jan 14, 2015 19:05:44 GMT -5
Garry what were the "Predators", the camo stocked ones? Same thing, not V or F?
(A favorite store had one forever in 223/12(?) and I handled it a couple times, but at the time I had no interest. I can't even remember if it was painted wood, or molded plastic.)
|
|
|
|
Post by winkman on Jan 14, 2015 23:10:35 GMT -5
Garry what were the "Predators", the camo stocked ones? Same thing, not V or F? (A favorite store had one forever in 223/12(?) and I handled it a couple times, but at the time I had no interest. I can't even remember if it was painted wood, or molded plastic.) Cas, Far as I know, and I'm not 100% sure cause I never followed the 24F's, but here's what I do know. When Savage went to the 24F, I was pretty much done interest wise, I didn't like the tupperware stocks and the guns were much heavier and bulkier than the 24 and 24V. I don't believe there were any wood stocks painted in the camo finish, but it could be possible on the early 24F's I guess. Additionally, with a scope on a 24F the comb on the stock was so low you experienced jaw weld to the stock instead of cheek weld, but I am digressing. As far as I know, the last 24/24V's were produced in 1988 as Savage declared insolvency and went into Chapter 11 trying to reorganize and stay solvent. In 1989 they were only producing the 110 bolt action rifle as they paid off creditors and worked their way out of it. In 1990, they started producing the 24 again, and it was called the 24F. So as far as I know, 1990 was officially the first year of the 24F. There were 2 versions of it in 1990, one with a black tupperware stock called the 24F and one with the camo tupperware stock called the 24F-12T turkey. You can see them in the 1990 catalog I have on the main board in the catalog section. So sometime after that, they probably renamed it the Predator but it was definitely a 24F and not a 24V. The camo tupperware stock didn't seem to last long, they suddenly went to the all black stock/forend, but as I said, once they went to the 24F I no longer had any interest and didn't follow it anymore. Even my gun in the pics above, while it is really a 24V according to Savage records(hell, look at the box), the cold hard reality of it is, it's a 24F that they called a 24V as they were making changes and transitioning over. That gun has the exact same bulky/ heavy feeling as the 24F's with the tupperware stocks. Same scroll work, same cross bolt safety and same poorly finished dull satin blueing. According to the old timer I spoke with(via a 3 way conversation) at the Savage plant, he said very few 24V's in 12 gauge were made, it was right near the end as they went into Chapter 11. The reason I called was because Savage never mentioned what style choke tubes interchanged with that 12 gauge barrel, and it only came with one choke, modified I believe. I was lucky to get the additional information that I did get. Thats all I know. Haven't seen another one like it, or heard of anyone else having one till this thread came up. Cas, always a pleasure to see you and converse with you. Garry |
|
|
|
Post by jrguerra on Jan 15, 2015 8:53:07 GMT -5
This is very cool - thanks for the photos and information, I had no idea this transition rifle existed. Mine sole 24 centerfire is a plain jane 24F 30-30 / 12 gauge in black synthetic stock. Its a keeper though.
|
|
|
|
Post by odell23 on Jan 15, 2015 13:56:25 GMT -5
winkman is very close in assessment of when the transition happened. The model 24 never when out of production though, even during the bankruptcy. The line of guns was paired down, but the model 24 was one of their best money makers. The line of 24V guns ended in 1988 and the 24F began in 1989. But the transitional guns spanned both of those years due to left over 24V parts and contracts and the new design of the 24F with a crossbolt safety and new barrels.
I've identified 3 distinct types of 24V/F Transitions, and there certainly could be more.
Type I - The first has a 24V frame (no crossbolt saftey), a 24F barrel set, and wood furniture where the forearm is held in place by a machine screw. It has a game scene engraving with a fox on the left side and a grouse on the right. (This is very unusual as the right side game scene of all other model 24's is a turkey) It is marked of the left side of the rifle barrel with "24V".
Type II - (As picture above) This has a 24F frame and barrel set with wood funiture where the forearm is held in place by a machine screw. It has the 24F scroll engraving on both the right and the left. It is marked on the left side of the rifle barrel with "24".
Type III - This has the 24F frame and barrel set with the camo pattern Rynite furniture. It has the 24F scroll engraving on both the right and the left. It is marked on the left side of the rifle barrel with "24V".
To answer Cas question, all of the 24F with the black Rynite furniture are known as the "Predator" guns. Those with the camo painted Rynite furniture are the 24F-12T Turkey guns.
Hope this helps.
|
|
|
|
Post by odell23 on Jan 15, 2015 14:21:42 GMT -5
Here are pictures of a Type I for a comparison. You can see the 24V frame and 24F barrels.   |
|
|
|
Post by winkman on Jan 17, 2015 23:47:59 GMT -5
winkman is very close in assessment of when the transition happened. The model 24 never when out of production though, even during the bankruptcy. The line of guns was paired down, but the model 24 was one of their best money makers. The line of 24V guns ended in 1988 and the 24F began in 1989. But the transitional guns spanned both of those years due to left over 24V parts and contracts and the new design of the 24F with a crossbolt safety and new barrels. To answer Cas question, all of the 24F with the black Rynite furniture are known as the "Predator" guns. Those with the camo painted Rynite furniture are the 24F-12T Turkey guns. Hope this helps. Actually, I think I'm right on the money in my assessment except for the fact that production of the 24 was halted for a year or a little more, just not the entire year of 1989. The Savage 24 was certainly not one of their best money makers at the time, as the combination gun certainly wasn't in vogue with the general hunting community. There was a period of a year or a little better from when Savage filed for bankruptcy protection in 1988 till mid 1989 when production was halted on the Savage 24 and ALL other Savage guns except for the 110 bolt action as the company reorganized under the leadership of Ronald Coburn. You can find this information in Savage history on their website, here is the excerpt from it, and I quote: 'Between the early 1960's and late 1980's, numerous public and private corporations owned and sold Savage Arms, culminating in a reorganization of the business and a filing for bankruptcy protection in early 1988. Ronald Coburn was named president/CEO and redefined the future of the business. The company downsized and produced only the model 110 bolt-action rifle until mid 1989. By early 1990, the company was once again on a secure footing, having developed a strategy to build superior products at a reasonable price, something the competition could not match.' End quote. Additionally, I have the 1990 Savage Catalog in my hands, a copy of which Cas has put on Savage24.com in the catalog section. I have looked through the entire catalog, and the word 'Predator' cannot be found anywhere in the catalog. The 24F model with the black Dupont Rynite stock is designated as model '24F-12' or '24F-20' depending on the shotgun configuation and the 24F with the Camo stock Cas mentions is designated as the '24F-12T Turkey', only having been made in 12 gauge, so it would be sometime after 1990 that they decided to call it the 'Predator'. As I said, I didn't follow the gun once they became 24F, simply had no interest and didn't obtain any of the catalogs after 1990 catalog. Interestingly, I also noticed in the 1990 catalog that there wasn't a Savage 24 of any persuasion offered in .22 rimfire or .22 magnum, the rifle caliber/s which basically made the 24's reputation in the early years. |
|
|
|
Post by odell23 on Jan 19, 2015 11:13:10 GMT -5
This might be a point of interpretational difference. The company known as Savage Industries Inc. entered into bankruptcy reorganization on February 2, 1988. The 1988 catalog appeared with the Model 24 Field Grade Series S, Model 24 C Series S, and Model 24V Series D. The 1989 catalog has the Model 24F in 12 and 20 and the Model 24F-12T. Both of these catalogs were published under Savage Industries Inc.. Challenger International, Ltd. purchased 4 product lines from Savage Industries Inc.(the Model 110, 24, 72, & 99) on November 1, 1989 and also created the new corporation "Savage Arms, Inc." to carry on the manufacturing and sale of these products. The 1990 catalog produced by Savage Arms, Inc. carries the Model 24F in 12 and 20 and the 24F-12T.
I guess to my line of thought, how does a company introduce a new firearm design and then not build any? That is not to say they didn't focus solely on the 110 for a while, but not for 21 months let alone a year. Remember, we are talking about 24V/F Transition guns in this thread which do not appear anywhere in either Savage's literature and are obviously part of this bankruptcy time period.
I would have to disagree with you about the lack of popularity and profitability of the Model 24 leading up to 1990. Less than a decade earlier, the Model 24 reached a significant milestone and joined an exclusive club when the 1 millionth Model 24 gun was sold. At the start of the Survivalist movement in the mid 80's, Mel Tappan recommended it highly in his book "Survival Weapons" as he owned one personally. Also most states allowed the use of centerfire or rimfire cartridges as a legal method of take for turkeys.
Now I would agree that beginning after the release of the Model 24F and 24F-12T the popularity and profitability declined markedly for several reasons. First the additional weight of the 24F over the 24V was undesirable. Also the crossbolt safety was seen as unnecessary for a rebounding hammer. Second, state wildlife agencies began to eliminate rifle cartridges as a legal method of take for turkeys. They also began enacting laws prohibiting carrying a rifle during shotgun only seasons for turkey and deer effectively banning the use Model 24 completely for these hunts. I don't believe Challenger International would have purchased and continued to produce the Model 24 line if interest prior to the sale was that low.
You are correct that the 24F was not called the Predator in the early years. That moniker didn't begin until the 1995 catalog. It has just been easier to refer to the entire production of the 24F as the Predator because nothing was different about those earlier guns and those starting in 1995.
And the .22lr did make a comeback in the 24F line for the 1991 catalog.
|
|
|
|
Post by cas on Jan 19, 2015 21:48:37 GMT -5
I guess to my line of thought, how does a company introduce a new firearm design and then not build any? Ruger's been doing it forever.  |
|
|
|
Post by odell23 on Jan 20, 2015 18:59:48 GMT -5
[/quote] Ruger's been doing it forever. [/quote] Point well taken. |
|
