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Post by neilrr on Dec 8, 2016 9:38:07 GMT -5
Has anyone experienced the following issues when firing PPU (Prvi Partizan, manufactured in Serbia) .222 Rem ammo: the fired brass case sticks in the chamber with either new ammo or resized hand loaded cases and a ram rod must be used to extract them? I have a Model 24-V, .222 Rem/20 ga. whose .222 Rem chamber is completely smooth, i.e. no ridges or valleys that could catch on a fired case. New PPU ammo or resized hand loaded PPU cases load into the chamber with no issues and extract easily if not fired. However both new ammo or hand loaded fired PPU cases stick in the chamber. I have hand loaded new and used Winchester .222 Rem brass cases and all fired cases extract with no issues. The fired PPU cases are about 0.005" longer than the fired Winchester cases, but have the same diameter when measuring both the body and neck areas. Friends have fired other caliber PPU ammo, mainly handgun ammo, without issues. However, none have .222 Rem rifles so they have not fired that caliber rifle ammo. Any input is appreciated.
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Post by 4570fan on Dec 8, 2016 18:31:42 GMT -5
A guess.. the PPU brass is thinner and stretching. Have you tried trimming that extra 0.0005 length back before reloading?
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Post by painter on Dec 8, 2016 20:43:16 GMT -5
I don't think the case length has much to do with it. Brass always fire forms/stretches to the chamber, and typically will grow in length from firing, and re-sizing as it's worked. It also typically stretches to the chamber dimension and then springs back to allow for extraction.
Brass ammo isn't usually coated, like steel cased ammo, so there should be no lacquer to stick the case in the chamber.
Have you measured base diameters, or looked for something different in the two brands of cases where the extractor engages?
I've fired PPU ammo out of my 6.5 Swede and it functions fine and is accurate.
Maybe you ended up with a bad lot?
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Post by Mr. Polecat on Dec 8, 2016 21:51:39 GMT -5
Hmm, I use PPU 7.62x54r in my M39, and have reloaded a couple boxes of the cases twice now without any problems. I trim my bottleneck cases every time I reload them, though.
Clean your chamber good? I've had dirty chambers cause cases to stick before, until I've bronze-brushed them good. Typically gun store consignments or estate-sale guns that have sat for years without being fired. The bore-sized brush won't get the bottleneck chambers cleaned out good, but you don't want to get an over-size brush stuck in there either. I scrub what I can with an old bore brush of a size that won't stick in the bore, and then swab it out really good with an oversize patch and too much ballistol (or whatever your cleaner/lube of choice is).
I theorize that even a light undetectable frosting of oxidation in the chamber can cause it. Can't see anything, but after the chamber cleaning they extract a heck of a lot better.
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Post by neilrr on Dec 8, 2016 23:02:18 GMT -5
Thanks everyone for the positive feedback. I will try to respond to each below:
4570fan: The PPU case is thinner than the Winchester case. I have resized/trimmed the PPU cases to match the Winchester case dimensions since I know the Winchester cases do not stick. The resized and trimmed PPU cases fit the chamber and extract easily. However, when the PPU reloads are fired they stick tight within the chamber and Winchester reloads do not. The sticking is associated with the PPU cases.
Painter: the extractor tries to extract the PPU fired cases, but the case is so tight in the chamber, that a ram rod is needed to push it out. Once the fired PPU case's base is pushed clear of the chamber, about 1/8", the remainder of the case is extracted easily. I have measured the diameter of PPU and Winchester fired cases in various places and there is a slight difference. The fired PPU cases is about 0.002 - 0.003" greater in diameter at the base of the case. I think that this just might be enough to cause the sticking issue.
leaf: I fired four (4) twenty (20) round boxes of the PPU ammo, from two different lots, and followed up with ten (10) reloads. All new or reloaded PPU case fit the chamber and extract easily prior to firing. However, 98% of the new or reloaded cases stuck tight in the chamber after firing. None of the new or reloaded Winchester cases stuck when fired. As you recommended and is my standard practice, when I first got the gun I stripped it completely, cleaned all of the parts and both barrels, and bronze brushed/polished both the rifle and shotgun chambers then checked them with a borescope - as I previously stated no peaks or valleys were visible. Maybe the slightly larger diameter base of the fired PPU case is causing the sticking issue.
Anyway, I do not plan to buy anymore PPU ammo since I was able to find 300 new Winchester .222 Rem cases. It is definitely cheaper to reload this caliber ammo and less issues.
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Post by vancmike on Jan 2, 2017 17:28:12 GMT -5
That's interesting....always keeping my eye open for good deals on .222 brass and I'll eschew any on PPU.
WAG, it might be that PPU converted some tired .223 stampings into .222. It might be interesting to measure the thickness of the brass near the head and compare it to other brands.
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Post by neilrr on Jan 2, 2017 20:26:55 GMT -5
vancmike, I re-measured the fired PPU case necks and they are definitely thinner than either the new or fired Winchester case necks. I also reloaded 20 of the Winchester cases a second time and fired them last week with no extraction issues. So the only thing I can figure out is that the thinner PPU cases expand more than the Winchester cases and thus stick in the chamber when fired. Any way, I plan to use the Winchester cases and reload. No more PPU ammo. Thanks everyone for your feedback.
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Post by david on Jan 25, 2017 16:20:26 GMT -5
PPU sticks in my 223. I think its the Ammo. I have not reloaded any, I just chuck the brass and stopped buying it.
It does this in my Savage and TC contender.
One in 5 might stick.
David
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Post by neilrr on Jan 25, 2017 17:16:09 GMT -5
david, wise move. Checking around I have confirmed that PPU brass is definitely thinner, especially rifle brass and has the potential to stick in the chamber. However, I have not heard of any sticking problems with their pistol or revolver ammo. I do not purchase nor try to reload PPU anymore either. The .222 Winchester cases work great for reloading and do not stick in my 24V.
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Post by cw on Jan 26, 2017 7:09:08 GMT -5
PPU sticks in my 223. I think its the Ammo. I have not reloaded any, I just chuck the brass and stopped buying it. It does this in my Savage and TC contender. One in 5 might stick. David Common complaint across the web. Personally I toss any I come across into the scrap bucket and dont buy it. CW |
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Post by Scott in NCal on Feb 10, 2017 13:10:12 GMT -5
Not in point but PPU 222 works fine in my H&R bolt rifle and PPU 22 hornet works fine my Savage 24
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Post by diverbob on Mar 3, 2017 11:10:49 GMT -5
 I recently bought a lightly used 24v .222/20. the .222 is sticking in the chamber with or without firing, I've cleaned and tried to adjust the ejector now the chamber won't lock when breach is closed. I would like to send this to a gunsmith with some knowledge of this model, any suggestion? |
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Post by neilrr on Mar 3, 2017 22:20:28 GMT -5
diverbob - welcome to the forum. Did the gun lockup correctly before you made the adjustments to the extractor? What adjustments did you do? Also, even though lightly used, it is possible that the chamber is dirty and/or has rough spots, scratches that will cause the round to stick, fired or not. Did you check the chamber for any rough spots after you cleaned it? Lastly, any experienced gunsmith should be able to help resolve these issues. If you advise us as to the city and state in which you live in I might be able to suggest a gunsmith for you.
One additional thought, does the 20 ga shotgun round extract or does it also stick in the chamber? If the shotgun round doesn't extract then the issue is probably with your extractor.
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