scott
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Post by scott on Jan 19, 2014 22:00:25 GMT -5
OK this is strictly a "what's your opinion type thread, but I figure its worth asking.
I'm trying to decide what style sights to pun on the 24V I'm building up. The folding rear open sight that it came with was pretty floppy and jankety, but I happen to have a brand new replacement in my parts bin. I also have a couple of the old blade type rears with elevator wedges. I have an old weaver 4x scope just sitting on the shelf (and my barrel is drilled for a scope mount), and I have a nice folding peep sight with adjustable aperture which I can adapt to mount on the gun with just a few minutes milling.
So here's my dilema. I'm trying to build as much of a do it all backpacking gun as I can manage. I grew up shooting NRA qualifications and matches and for years I almost exclusively shot with peep sights. In spite of their precision, they have the practical disadvantage of limiting the field of view and hampering target acquisition, but they're great for slow or non-moving targets. Open sights offer easy target acquisition but are not nearly as precise at longer distances (I'm assuming I may want to shoot out to a few hundred yards with the .222 eventually), and the scope is the heaviest/most bulky, and more prone to damage than either of the other sights, as well as the fact that it would be in the way when using the shotgun.
So anyway, if it was your choice to make, what would you do and why?
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Post by cw on Jan 19, 2014 22:18:56 GMT -5
To me these are not a long range gun. They are what they where when they where invented... a ''pot'' gun. So IMHO a scope, unless you cannot see iron sites is not needed.
I also agree that the factory pen sites on many are too small and not so repeatable. My own 22/410 is SO TINY!! and my new to me 22Mag/20ga was like yours...wobbly. SO I added a red dot to the 22mag/20 and have to put up with the 22/410 as its a early gun with no scope option.
I too grew up with peeps. My first ''deer rifle'' was a peep sited Mauser 98. I would like a peep on my 24's. BUT Don't really want to alter them with holes.
CW
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scott
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Post by scott on Jan 19, 2014 22:33:43 GMT -5
I'd normally hesitate to modify any of my guns as well. But my 24 is such a mutt to start with and I'm already making a number of substantial changes to build it up to my specific desires. Two blind threaded holes wouldn't be a deal breaker. Most of the work will be to the sight, which came with a lot of reloading gear I bought about 12 years ago.
I don't expect to intentionally do any really long range shooting with it, but if the round is capable of reaching out (I'm not that familiar with .222 ballistics yet), then I'd like to be set up to take advantage if the situation calls for it.
At least the peeper will fold out of the way for when I want to use the shotgun.
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Post by loganboone on Jan 19, 2014 22:53:49 GMT -5
I'd put a peer sight with a folding rear as back up, scope is no good for pack gun. Unless ofcourse, you had the quick detatch locking rings and could remove your scope for stowing without losing your zero. I keep my 24C open sights and my 24V (.223)with a 2.5X and folding rear as backup.
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scott
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Post by scott on Jan 19, 2014 23:36:24 GMT -5
You know, I completely forgot that I could do that (duh!). That also settles the folding rear vs. blade/elevator dilema as well.
QD scope rings aren't a bad idea, but at least for now aren't really in line with what I'm planning. I'm trying to keep everything self contained so the gun carries its own "kit".
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Post by Crowcifier6 on Jan 20, 2014 6:48:59 GMT -5
Skinner sights makes a dovetail peep. I have one of his receiver peeps on my marlin 1897, nice product. Probably will put one on my 24 if I can get the dang thing fixed.
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Post by woodsbum on Jan 22, 2014 9:16:25 GMT -5
For quit some time I had my 24V (.222/20) set up with a 2.5 power scope. After a few years of playing around I came to realize that this gun wasn't designed to be a long range, scope sighted rifle. Many people seem to feel that because the .222 is considered a varmint round it automatically means scope. They fail to realize that the .222 bullet is an excellent small game cartridge in it's own right, surpassing the 22LR in my opinion. True, the factory loads all seem to be geared towards high velocity and blow up on impact, but with a little basic handloading and perhaps some bullet casting the .222 can really come into a different perspective. Putting a scope on a 24 really doesn't gain much for you and actually hampers the use of the shotgun barrel. The weight alone of a scope takes away form the firearms usefulness. When I reach behind the seat of the truck and grab the 24V, I don't want to wonder whether the scope is out of adjustment. At less than 100yds the .222 works just fine with open sights and there is nothing in the way of a quick 20 ga shot. I know there are many 24's sporting scopes out there. Some are good out beyond 100yds, but if that's what's needed, you can probable do better overall carrying a regular scope sighted rifle and babying the scope. I've gone back to the folding rear leaf sight that came on the gun originally. It's great for the .222 out to 100yds (especially if I can find a rest) and lines me up for a quick slug or charge of buckshot from the 20ga. If a ruffed grouse goes up the 24V goes up quick and I don't even notice the rear leaf or what position it's in, the scope was always in my way for this type of shot. My experience says "keep it simple", don't try to make the 24 into something it isn't designed to be and most important of all enjoy it for the wonderful woodsgun that it is.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2014 13:16:26 GMT -5
I say to go with the folding blade!! Someone else pointed out that these are not long range guns. The .222/20 I had and sold couldn't get better than 3-4" groups off the bench with decent Hornady preditor ammo, winchester or any I tried. The ramp sites are jank and can't be counted on. A folding and adjustable leaf site will best support the pack gun Idea and up to 100 yards should do as good as any 4X scope or peep site. Any kind of scope at all will really detract from the usefulness of the shotgun barrel, see thru mounts, detachable it doesn't matter IMO, it kills the ability to shoot on the wing, or follow up shots on small game. I feel like any scope more powerful than a 9X is wasted on a 24. The most accurate/precise combo I've come up with out of 7 different 24's is a 24VB 30-30/20 with a 9X simmons shotgun scope. I can get ~1.5-2" groups at 100 yrds everytime with winchester power point ammo(everytime I let the barrel cool all the way back to ambient that is.) With that being said, maybe the specific level of precision and accuracy depend more on your specific firearm, rather than Savage 24 as a group? Even if you could find a .222/20 combo that could get 1" groups at 100yrds, a long range scope on one of these is wasted, and the versatility of your pack gun is comprimised. The folding leaf is the most reliable and most feasable siting mechanism.
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scott
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Post by scott on Jan 22, 2014 14:40:09 GMT -5
Thanks guys.
Believe me, you're preaching to the coir regarding the usefulness of a scope for my particular application, but I didn't want to "lead the witness" when asking for opinions after all.
It's unrelated to the question at hand, but I'm a little surprised at the general lack of respect that people have for the accuracy of their rifles. Personally, I have yet to see a commercially made rifle (with the exception of my Father's old 7mm mag BAR) of any age that won't shoot sub 2 moa out of the box and sub 1 moa with nothing more than minor tweaks. Just looking at the construction of these guns, I don't see any of the usual suspects that destroy a guns accuracy. If they're really that inconsistent as a group, then I would almost bet that there's a single design aspect (IE, the barrel band would be my first guess) that's causing the issue.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2014 15:04:17 GMT -5
Late response but hey? I don't mean to run down my 24's but I'm referring to a .222 V-D that I've sold, that got janky groups and strung shots upward as the barrel heated. My best buddy, my V-B 30-30 shoots great groups at ambient temps, but strings shots down once it gets warm at all(within 2-3 shots). I had an S-E that did 1" from the bench at 50yrds which isn't special but not bad, and a DL model I sold that did the same in 22mag/410. For me, the problem comes with these seperated barrels stringing shots as the heat up.
I do have 2 to brag on though and one is my beloved 22mag/20 HDL which is consistent everytime. Also, a VD 357 which shoots 1/2" groups at 50 yards and does it consistnetly, regardless of heat. I wish I could completely understand why. I assume the difference is that the 38's aren't causing a drastic heating effect on the barrel like the 3030 and 222 do.
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Post by vancmike on Feb 22, 2014 23:49:19 GMT -5
I shot hundreds of critters (including rats and rabbits) with my original 22/410. But, in fairness, I was a teenager at the time. With good eyes.
I bought a 222/20 a few years ago from Big Kelly on this site, and I've been surprised, even with my old eyes, how accurate it is. I've popped 10 shots into the end of soda cans at 75 yards. That ain't bad (guess those new glasses work pretty good after all).
I'm with those who regard the Mdl 24 as a truck gun, walk-around, summer-time multi-purpose gun. It is what it is and I've just never thought scopes were useful for my purposes.
Of course, I'm kind of old-fashioned that way. I don't have scopes on any of my four lever action rifles nor any scoped handguns.
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