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Post by DWS33 on Mar 12, 2014 19:55:37 GMT -5
Is it safely possible to fire a 45 long Colt in a 24 .410 shotgun barrel? Has anyone tried this and what kind of accuracy can one expect?
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Post by mstreman on Mar 13, 2014 6:53:58 GMT -5
No. Here is why. The diameter of the .45 long colt/.45 ACP bullet is .451-.454±.006 inch while the diameter of a .410 is .41± inch .39-.37± with full choke. A .410 shell can be fired from a "dual caliber gun such as The Judge--- however the reverse is not true. The barrel and chamber are large enough for the .45 as well and the smaller diameter but longer shot shell where the gas blow by is blocked by the wad and flex of the shot shell case in the over-sized bore. Owing to the trade-off of not spinning a bullet vs. spinning a column of shot, the utility of a duel caliber is questionable and probably a marketing gimmick. I would use buck shot/slugs for my .410 shooting in the .45 bore.
There is only one dual caliber gun I know that has a de-spin adapter for shooting .410 through a rifled barrel and I believe one gun with adapter to impart spin for a smooth bore barrel(Thompson ?). There are some .41 cal black powder sabots which might be adapted but given that most .410s are full choke, that would still be risking a ruptured or bulged barrel.
Note: A .45 ACP-R will load into a .410 chamber but a .45LC will not.( if you can you have an "out of spec chamber") Were you to close the breech on .45-ACP/LC in a .410 chamber and attempt to fire, you've a high chance of having the barrel rupture.
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Post by cw on Mar 13, 2014 12:51:38 GMT -5
No. Here is why. The diameter of the .45 long colt/.45 ACP bullet is .451-.454±.006 inch while the diameter of a .410 is .41± inch .39-.37± with full choke. A .410 shell can be fired from a "dual caliber gun such as The Judge--- however the reverse is not true. The barrel and chamber are large enough for the .45 as well and the smaller diameter but longer shot shell where the gas blow by is blocked by the wad and flex of the shot shell case in the over-sized bore. Owing to the trade-off of not spinning a bullet vs. spinning a column of shot, the utility of a duel caliber is questionable and probably a marketing gimmick. I would use buck shot/slugs for my .410 shooting in the .45 bore. There is only one dual caliber gun I know that has a de-spin adapter for shooting .410 through a rifled barrel and I believe one gun with adapter to impart spin for a smooth bore barrel(Thompson ?). There are some .41 cal black powder sabots which might be adapted but given that most .410s are full choke, that would still be risking a ruptured or bulged barrel. Note: A .45 ACP-R will load into a .410 chamber but a .45LC will not.( if you can you have an "out of spec chamber") Were you to close the breech on .45-ACP/LC in a .410 chamber and attempt to fire, you've a high chance of having the barrel rupture. This is spot on correct so PLEASE DO NOT TRY IT!! What confuses folks is the 45/410 combo guns offered today. What different is (as mentioned above) they are FIRST AND FORMOST a 45 colt barrel and chamber. See a shot shell works JUST FINE in ANY DIAMETER BARREL!! That what a Savage 410er can work. Same principal. The shot colum opens to the bore then responds to any constriction (choke) with a aicaple pattern. In this case the 410 is fired thru a 452 barrel. But it has rifling. The rifling destroys patterns as it imparts cyntrifig force to the shot colum. These guns generally have a threaded "choke". This usually has straight "fingers along with constriction to stop or slow the rotation and regain some ability to pattern. You can hand load some special single projectile loadings if you want to do some research. 303 Brit 9.3x74R or even 444 brass can be used along with approx .410 dia projectiles. I have made up buck shot loads from mine using 420 lead balls. 410 pistol bullets offer poor accuracy as they are butt heavy and tumble in flight. Your best and easiest is to buy slugs and see what your gun likes. Mine shoot RWS 3" slugs nicely. I have three 410's and all like them. CW |
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Post by vancmike on Mar 13, 2014 18:49:54 GMT -5
What they said. My .410 barrel mics out at .384". Way too small for a .458 slug. Plus, the .45 long colt cartridge just flat won't fit into your .410 chamber (I've tried!).
Incidentally, you'll find that .44 Mag/.44 Special cartridge will fit into your .410 chamber. Doesn't matter: don't fire them either. The .44 bullets in my inventory average .430" (jacketed) and .429-.430" for lead. Those won't squeeze down far enough either.
Although......it'd be interesting to see if anyone dumb enough to fire a 44 Mag cartridge in a Mdl 24 would survive....Darwin at his best?
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Post by cw on Mar 14, 2014 11:30:58 GMT -5
What they said. My .410 barrel mics out at .384". Way too small for a .458 slug. Plus, the .45 long colt cartridge just flat won't fit into your .410 chamber (I've tried!). Incidentally, you'll find that .44 Mag/.44 Special cartridge will fit into your .410 chamber. Doesn't matter: don't fire them either. The .44 bullets in my inventory average .430" (jacketed) and .429-.430" for lead. Those won't squeeze down far enough either. Although......it'd be interesting to see if anyone dumb enough to fire a 44 Mag cartridge in a Mdl 24 would survive....Darwin at his best? Search Utube!!! There is a couple entertaining yahoos who shoot 454, 44 mag AND 45 colts in a 410 single shot!!!!! CW |
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Post by vancmike on Mar 15, 2014 14:16:34 GMT -5
Whoa! Found a few. Didn't occur to me that anyone would actually document same by video. The NEF (designed for 410/45 Colt) did fine, but the boys who fired them in standard shotguns don't look like the brightest stars in the sky.
(My prayer tonight: "Dear Lord, please don't let them procreate....")
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Post by DWS33 on Mar 19, 2014 9:14:20 GMT -5
I have a few ideas with regard to improving the performance of the .410 barrel. I need someone that has a 24 in .410 to make some accurate measurements of their barrels if at all possible using a digital micrometer and or caliper. I need to know what the OD is near the muzzle end in the area that encompasses the choke section of the barrel. I'm thinking of installing a custom choke tubes in possibly cylinder, IC, Skeet II, and rifled. I found a supplier for blank tubes but need to know if the barrel has enough material ie wall thickness for the machine work.
Of course I'm crazy! That's what keeps me from going insane. Cabin fever. Is it trout season yet?
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Post by cw on Mar 19, 2014 14:12:18 GMT -5
Whoa! Found a few. Didn't occur to me that anyone would actually document same by video. The NEF (designed for 410/45 Colt) did fine, but the boys who fired them in standard shotguns don't look like the brightest stars in the sky. (My prayer tonight: "Dear Lord, please don't let them procreate....") REMEMBER 45/410 guns have a 452 bore and 410 is well. 410 and under .390 if the usual full choke!!! CW |
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