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Post by txbob on Mar 27, 2014 23:30:31 GMT -5
In the process of reworking my 24V I found that there was a lot of movement in the rifle barrel.
I have posted 4 pictures under the same subject in the photo album.
I believe this movement is caused by stress on the barrel during the manufacturing process,probably from the
brazing process but could have been from the machining of the barrel,and the barrel assembly was not stress relived and Savage relied on the barrel band to correct the alignment. I believe this can be corrected with some work. I am
talking about the models that have the gap between the barrels. When I have completed my rework a put my 24
back together,I will go to the range and see how my POI is,and see how good or bad it is,and see if it needs correction.I was unaware of this problem before joining the forum,and had not shot mine to see how it grouped before starting my rework.
Now this is all conjecture on my part,and may not have anything to do with the cause. I am throwing this out there
for some discussion.
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Post by colonel3006 on Mar 28, 2014 8:26:53 GMT -5
I am completely new to the world of 24's (just bought my first one 5 days ago) so I probably have no idea what I'm talking about but looking at your pics that's exactly how mine looked. Upon shooting I realized the shotgun barrel was shooting about 10" left and about the same low. I cut a shim from a pop can and put it in the bottom left side of shotgun barrel and it seemed to fix her right up. Like I said I new to these guns so don't take what I am saying to be right.
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Post by captcapsize on Mar 28, 2014 9:16:03 GMT -5
Both of my 24's (.223/20 and .22 mag/20) the shotgun POI is about 12" low at 30 yds. The magnum is brazed end to end. The .223 has a welded or brazed block at the muzzle end. The main problem I see with this is after a couple of rounds from the rifle barrel it heats up and expands but can't go anywhere so it starts vertical stringing so bad that the 3rd shot it is shooting 3" low at 50 yds. A hunting situation where shots are almost never done with a warm barrel probably won't be an issue. But while doing load development it is really annoying, I have to wait for the barrel to cool down between shots. I have toyed with the idea of sawing through the block holding the barrels together then silver soldering them back together after testing the regulation and alignment. This won't help the vertical stringing but i can live with that. I hate to mess up the pristine bluing on the barrels so am reluctant to do it. I will try the shim next time at the range. I bet if I shoot several .223's the shim will be easier to insert.
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Post by chuckles on Mar 28, 2014 16:38:48 GMT -5
I shot my 24V-A 222/20ga last week for the first time and was pleased with the results so far. The 222 grouped nicely at 100 with the Leupold 2.5X I mounted. My vision is bad enough in my right eye that open sights are not really an option at this point. Even with the scope the 3" orange stick-on dot is a blob at 100 yds. Definitely shot minute-of-coyote which is my only accuracy requirement.
I shot one load of #6 just to make sure the 20ga barrel fires and it was dead center but about 8" low at 20yds which does not bode well for slug shooting but did not have any slugs with. I think I can correct with Kentucky windage for small game using the scope but will have to see what buckshot loads do for coyotes.
This is my first 24 and I can see why this forum exists. They have a strange attraction and I am really looking forward to hunting with mine. I will have to remember some slugs next time but my deer hunting is all with archery, rifle or muzzleloader so it will mostly be to satisfy my curiosity.
Best of luck in finding a fix for the regulation issues.
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Post by Mr. Polecat on Mar 29, 2014 6:56:45 GMT -5
I've regulated them with shims and/or a wedge between the barrels, and/or twisting the barrel band a little (to fix the windage regulation).
24C went from 12" low (with slugs) at 25 yd to 4" low (still not good enough, but closer).... It's going to require a little machining inside the barrel band to be good.
24V went from 6" low with slugs) at 50 yd to 2" low. It could be right on, but that's as close as I can get it (a little bit of wedge/shim goes a long way).
It sounds frightening to be wedging between the barrels, but that's how both the Baikals and the Valmet 412s achieve their regulation. Though they do string a little worse as they heat up after doing it. You've got to wait between shots until they are dead cold to adjust the wedge. A good five minutes, I'd say. But stringing is the nature of the beast with these types of guns. Even the expensive combos do it some. IMO, they're a food-getter, not a range-blaster.
Shim is good for "roughing it in" if it's way low, and the wedge is good for fine-tuning. You can slide it back and forth a little, and since the barrels get closer as they go back, it'll spread the barrels a little more the farther you slide it back. But if you go too far it will start having a reverse effect, and you'll have to make a little bit thicker shim to keep it near the middle.
I find that good wedge materials are a nickel or a couple of stacked pennies. I have some plans to try to make a threaded contraption with a jam screw that can be tightened to squeeze the barrels apart for really fine tuning that I can't seem to get with just a nickel, but I haven't gotten 'round to trying...... Shimming the barrel band, I'll use a slice of pop can to go a long way or a layer or 3 of notebook paper to go just a little way. Just that you can't get much shim in there without going in with a dremel and taking a little material off the inside, if it's way off. And I am a little afeer'd to do that, because you can't take it back after it's done, ya know?
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Post by chuckles on Apr 18, 2014 7:20:56 GMT -5
So I finally got a chance to do some more extensive testing of the shotgun barrel and it is shooting very low at 40yds. With an 8" high hold on the center of the target only the top half of the pattern is hitting the paper and most is hitting the dirt in front of the target board. Basically the center of the pattern is approximately 18" low. I am shooting a 36 pellet load of F lead shot that I loaded myself.
If I am reading the post above correctly I should put a slice of pop can in the bottom of the barrel band opening that encloses the shotgun barrel. I will try that and see where it leads me. If anyone has photos of the wedge technique I would love to see one. I am still trying to wrap my brain around how a nickel or pennies would stay in place. I looked at the photos on the gallery from txbob and I think I understand what is happening there with the modified barrel band but that level of machining is definitely out of my league. If I am on the wrong track with the barrel band any advice would be much appreciated.
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Post by captcapsize on Apr 18, 2014 7:53:51 GMT -5
Last time at the range x2 I tried shimming the barrel gap on my .223/20. I hammered flat a couple of .22 mag brass and used them as wedges just to try it and see if it was an improvement. It was, so when I got home I spread the gap a tad more and slipped in a #6 ss washer .026" thick and pulled out the wedges. Tried it at the range last week and found the two barrels are within 2" vertical at 50 yds. but the slug barrel shoots about 10" left of the rifle. Still pondering that problem.
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Post by Mr. Polecat on Apr 18, 2014 11:00:19 GMT -5
Maybe loosen your barrel band and give it a bit of a twist and tighten it back down. But 10" is a lot.... But a little bit of twist goes a long way... I dunno...
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Post by captcapsize on Apr 18, 2014 12:33:28 GMT -5
Maybe loosen your barrel band and give it a bit of a twist and tighten it back down. But 10" is a lot.... But a little bit of twist goes a long way... I dunno... It doesn't have a barrel band, the barrels are attached at the muzzle end by brazing, silver solder or welding to a small flat block between them. |
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Post by Mr. Polecat on Apr 18, 2014 21:34:11 GMT -5
Oh shoot... Threading and an offset choke?  |
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Post by hotchkisshammer on Apr 18, 2014 21:48:00 GMT -5
Not sure what you boys can do with that. Ive had my 24v since before i can remember n both barrels are tack drivers. Just bought a 22lr but havent shot it yet. Hope i dont run into that.
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