hanss
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Posts: 16
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Post by hanss on Mar 15, 2013 10:13:31 GMT -5
With the rumors on new regulations, I wonder if combos/drillings/vierlings will become popular in the US. Europe has these a little more common, but their regulations and hunting style dictate it. Also, if more people get regulated to ONE (or a small few) gun, will states/federal open up some of the retarded restrictions on combos that are currently in place for hunting? Now I realize that only 4% of gun owners hunt, but that 4% puts a lot of time and money into the eco system. I searched for a long time to get my .357/20. My style of hunting make this a perfect combination, for me. .357max or SuperMag (stamped SuperMag on one side, .357mag on the other alla Dan Wesson style  ) would be worth reaming for, assuming you can ever get Remington to produce brass, Starline has supposedly stopped indefinitely. And altering the value by reaming isn't a concern for me, it's my baby, but it'll be getting the barrels regulated and floated, choke tube, double triggers (still haven't worked that out) and some engraving and stock carving/inlay done to it (stock got chipped by the scalloped nub already). Heck, it might bring the value up. I realize you can't polish a turd, but add enough varnish and it can shine. Hans |
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Post by vancmike on Mar 18, 2013 14:54:14 GMT -5
Well, here in my state (it's the Washington in the upper left corner of your map.....and remember, there's only one "R" in Washington......), in the last ten years I've hunted for Belding's ground squirrel, red squirrel, crow, cotton-tail, jack-rabbit, pheasant, duck, various goose, Hungarian partridge, coyote, white-tail deer, mule deer, and elk.
Could, but haven't, hunted for moose, black bear, mountain goat, bighorn sheep, cougar, turkey, fox, bobcat, grouse, and snowshoe rabbit.
All that requires a heck-of-a-combo. 6, maybe 7 barrels oter do it.....
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hanss
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Post by hanss on Mar 18, 2013 19:53:58 GMT -5
Not really, all you listed could be done with one combo with insert barrels or one drilling. Or one receiver with a couple different barrel sets.
Also, I could be wrong, but I believe that a single barreled 12 gauge fulfills every state for hunting reg. in North America.
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petemi
Will probably stay
Posts: 69
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Post by petemi on Mar 19, 2013 8:36:10 GMT -5
I believe it goes back to the old "12 ga. and .30-06 will handle anything in North America". It'll do it, but it may not be optimum for the big bears. As far as sheep and goats go, a guy I know in Alaska regularly takes wolves at five and six hundred yards with his '06. It oughta work fine for those critters too. The way I see it, one gun could do it all. No need for extra barrels. Personally, I prefer the .308 family over the '06 tribe, but that's just me, and black bears, moose and elk are the biggest thing I can expect to hunt. My .356/.358 Handi can take care of that. It'd be nice to have a 24 in .356/.358 over 12. I can dream, can't I? I don't think they made the 24V .357 in anything but 20 ga. Is that correct? You'd need the .357 to ream to the .356/.358.......perhaps a 20 ga. could work too for the one gun do anything. Does anyone know the pressure limits for the 24V?
Pete
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hanss
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Posts: 16
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Post by hanss on Mar 19, 2013 9:10:08 GMT -5
Petemi,
I'm pretty sure the .357 was only made with a 20 gauge.
I wasn't saying it would be optimal, but a 12 gauge technically meets all the minimums required. Not sure if the twenty meets the standards, I would just assume so. Now, getting close enough to use a 12 on some animals "might" be an exercise in futility.
Going to .358 would mean a tapered cartridge, taking it out of use from states that only allow straight wall. And like Indiana, case can only be a made to 1.625" in length, .358 is 2.015".
Hans
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petemi
Will probably stay
Posts: 69
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Post by petemi on Mar 19, 2013 10:38:00 GMT -5
Hans, I have a devil sitting on my left shoulder and an angel on my right. The devil whispers "If ya lived in Indiana, just leave the barrel marked .357 Magnum." Somehow, the angel doesn't seem to agree.  I don't know about those two. Pete |
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hanss
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Posts: 16
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Post by hanss on Mar 19, 2013 18:04:57 GMT -5
Or ream it out to .357max.
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Post by cas on Mar 19, 2013 19:28:07 GMT -5
Hans, I have a devil sitting on my left shoulder and an angel on my right. The devil whispers "If ya lived in Indiana, just leave the barrel marked .357 Magnum." Somehow, the angel doesn't seem to agree. I don't know about those two. Pete If it ever came down to someone reading the side of your gun, they'd have already made you unload it or done it themselves. Too late at that point, and it don't take a rocket surgeon to see it's a bottleneck case. Personally I don't think I'd pull the trigger on a 356/358 without a long length of string. Even then, just 'cause it holds up a while don't mean it will last. |
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petemi
Will probably stay
Posts: 69
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Post by petemi on Mar 20, 2013 3:26:24 GMT -5
I don't understand your concern or reasoning. The 24V .223 Remington operates at almost the exact same pressure range as the .358 Winchester.
.356 loads are considerably below the .223 in pressure.
Pete
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hanss
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Posts: 16
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Post by hanss on Mar 20, 2013 7:28:14 GMT -5
The .223 barrel sets were thicker. reaming out a .357 would be taking roughly .08-.10 out of the chamber. That might make the wall too thin. Without knowing the steel alloy, heat treatment, case burst strength etc., it might make the barrel unsafe. The action for the .223 was on the larger 12 gauge frame, the .357 was only made on the twenty gauge frame. At least, I am pretty sure the frame sizes are different.
Hans
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Post by cas on Mar 20, 2013 8:45:20 GMT -5
There's more to it than just cartridge pressure. Case thrust and case head size comes into play as well, it much more complex than just CUP.
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petemi
Will probably stay
Posts: 69
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Post by petemi on Mar 20, 2013 9:06:27 GMT -5
Hans, you bring up some very valid points and to be honest, I don't know the answers when talking about a 24. In a Handi, all centerfire rifle calibers are on the same SB2 frame. Shotgun and most pistol calibers now are on the SB1. To ream a .357 to .356/.358 all you need to do is make sure you put it on a SB2. All the chamber and barrel areas are thick enough and the steel is the same. They even use the same steel in their Huntsman muzzle loader. In fact, with an aftermarket breech plug, many of us shoot smokeless in it. I was not/am not aware that there is a structural difference between the 24's 12 and 20 ga. frames. Perhaps someone here can shed some light on that and also is the chamber area is strong enough to take the reaming. Does Savage use different steels for different barrels and frames? This is how we learn.
Pete
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Post by cas on Mar 20, 2013 10:42:14 GMT -5
You keep bringing up the Handi Rifle, but its not the same thing. They won't fit barrel to the older guns because they're not made the same as the "new" guns. Comparing a gun made by one company in the 90's to date, to one made by a different company in the 60's, 70's 80's isn't really a good way to guess what it will handle.  |
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petemi
Will probably stay
Posts: 69
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Post by petemi on Mar 20, 2013 11:06:00 GMT -5
You keep bringing up the Handi Rifle, but its not the same thing. They won't fit barrel to the older guns because they're not made the same as the "new" guns. Comparing a gun made by one company in the 90's to date, to one made by a different company in the 60's, 70's 80's isn't really a good way to guess what it will handle. cas, I agree with you. It's comparing apples and oranges. I bring up Handi rifles because I know them. I own fourteen of them; many of which I built. Below is a list of barrels H&R will only put replacement barrels on. They do put accessory barrels on older and newer frames than these shown. The reason they don't do it on these, is because the frames were outsourced...not made by them, and it's a liability question. There's nothing wrong with them. Many of us change and fit high pressure barrels to these frames ourselves without problems. Pete A= 1986 H&R will only fit the original chambering(replacement for defective rifle), 357Mag, 44mag, and shotgun barrels to these frames B= 1987 C= 1988 D= 1989 E= 1990 F= 1991 G= 1992 H= 1993 I= 1994 J= 1995 k= 1996 L=1997 M=1998 N=1999 |
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Post by cas on Mar 20, 2013 16:17:50 GMT -5
I've got a few of them around, the story of "ownership" is a bit convoluted so I won't go into it, but there's a 30-30/20ga combo somewhere, 45-70, a couple rifled 12 ga's and a 10. H&R/NEF's that is.
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) would be worth reaming for, assuming you can ever get Remington to produce brass, Starline has supposedly stopped indefinitely. And altering the value by reaming isn't a concern for me, it's my baby, but it'll be getting the barrels regulated and floated, choke tube, double triggers (still haven't worked that out) and some engraving and stock carving/inlay done to it (stock got chipped by the scalloped nub already). Heck, it might bring the value up. I realize you can't polish a turd, but add enough varnish and it can shine.
I don't know about those two.
