Post by vancmike on Jan 6, 2013 18:27:05 GMT -5
I posted this in the old forum, and have updated it; it's an FYI, I guess.
Couple of years ago, I bought a Saiga .410 (a variation on the AK-47 platform) along with a quantity of shot as well as slug "cartridges". I shot the Saiga some, but flipped it before I could use up the ammo. Velocity was 1600+/- fps. Although I didn't check my bore for size, I've since learned they're bored open/cylinder.
I saved a batch of "cartridges" (I guess since they have metal cases, they can be called such) which are made in Russia, by the JSC Barnaul Machine Tool Plant, specifically for the Saiga. The look is similar to Bear-brand cartridges now available.
My Savage Mdl 24 is my first firearm (bought it when I was 14...by mail in 1958...(sigh), and thought I might shoot the Barnaul slugs in it. However, my Mdl 24 bore measures a full-choked down to .37/9.41mm. I wasn't sure of the dimensions of the Barnaul slug. Although the Mdl 24 barrel is thick and stout, I would prefer not to ruin it.
So I dismantled a Barnaul cartridge. It's a zinc-covered steel case, 2.73"/69.34mm long. The rim is sized comparably to US commercial shot-shells. Inside, there is 17 gr. of small canister-shaped powder, behind a 23.3 gr. plastic wad, similar to BPI's 12 gauge wad i.e., a over-powder pad connected to a circle connected to a flat-top pad.....
....upon which rests a 12.8 gr. sabot surrounding the slug. The slug is a typical hollow-base rifled slug weighing 100 gr./.227 oz. Diameter of the sabot with slug inside is .43"/10.95mm, and the slug is .40"/10.16mm.
I don't have a bullet hardness testor, but the slug appears to be made of a significantly harder metal. That makes sense: it's about the same size as Winchester's slug, which weighs 1400 gr. (1/5 oz.) and a little smaller than a Federal HP lead slug which weighs 1750 gr./14 oz. So it's obviously lighter but harder....maybe a zinc mix?
I dropped the Barnaul sabot and the slug through the barrel. The sabot appears to get blocked at the end of the chamber, and the slug dropped easily until the choke began, 1.5" from the muzzle. Don't know if the sabot would get stuck when fired (perhaps the Saiga has a smoother transition between chamber and barrel?), but it appears the slug would probably go through to the choke easily enough. Whether or not the slug would squeeze down an additional .3" to traverse the bore without creating excessive pressures is something I'm not willing to try....at least on my vintage gun.
In the past, I've shot Remington, Federal and Winchester slugs in my 24, with laughable results (how about a 12" drop in 15 yds?). I haven't felt it necessary to dismantle any of those slug shells apart to measure any components.
So the answer is, yes, in your .410 bore Mdl 24 you can shoot Federal, WW or Rem or other similar soft lead slugs.
But I'd advise against the use of harder slugs, unless you've measured the cartridge components. With the recent proliferation of new .410 shotgun ammo designed for the Taurus Judge and S&W Governor, which both have "chokes" large enough to pass a 45 Colt bullet (which measures up to .454"), there's often not enough information from the ammo manufacturer about the projectile size. The caution possibly applies to Winchester's "Self-Defense Ammunition, with 3 disks over 1/4 oz. shot and similar products.
So be careful out there!
Couple of years ago, I bought a Saiga .410 (a variation on the AK-47 platform) along with a quantity of shot as well as slug "cartridges". I shot the Saiga some, but flipped it before I could use up the ammo. Velocity was 1600+/- fps. Although I didn't check my bore for size, I've since learned they're bored open/cylinder.
I saved a batch of "cartridges" (I guess since they have metal cases, they can be called such) which are made in Russia, by the JSC Barnaul Machine Tool Plant, specifically for the Saiga. The look is similar to Bear-brand cartridges now available.
My Savage Mdl 24 is my first firearm (bought it when I was 14...by mail in 1958...(sigh), and thought I might shoot the Barnaul slugs in it. However, my Mdl 24 bore measures a full-choked down to .37/9.41mm. I wasn't sure of the dimensions of the Barnaul slug. Although the Mdl 24 barrel is thick and stout, I would prefer not to ruin it.
So I dismantled a Barnaul cartridge. It's a zinc-covered steel case, 2.73"/69.34mm long. The rim is sized comparably to US commercial shot-shells. Inside, there is 17 gr. of small canister-shaped powder, behind a 23.3 gr. plastic wad, similar to BPI's 12 gauge wad i.e., a over-powder pad connected to a circle connected to a flat-top pad.....
....upon which rests a 12.8 gr. sabot surrounding the slug. The slug is a typical hollow-base rifled slug weighing 100 gr./.227 oz. Diameter of the sabot with slug inside is .43"/10.95mm, and the slug is .40"/10.16mm.
I don't have a bullet hardness testor, but the slug appears to be made of a significantly harder metal. That makes sense: it's about the same size as Winchester's slug, which weighs 1400 gr. (1/5 oz.) and a little smaller than a Federal HP lead slug which weighs 1750 gr./14 oz. So it's obviously lighter but harder....maybe a zinc mix?
I dropped the Barnaul sabot and the slug through the barrel. The sabot appears to get blocked at the end of the chamber, and the slug dropped easily until the choke began, 1.5" from the muzzle. Don't know if the sabot would get stuck when fired (perhaps the Saiga has a smoother transition between chamber and barrel?), but it appears the slug would probably go through to the choke easily enough. Whether or not the slug would squeeze down an additional .3" to traverse the bore without creating excessive pressures is something I'm not willing to try....at least on my vintage gun.
In the past, I've shot Remington, Federal and Winchester slugs in my 24, with laughable results (how about a 12" drop in 15 yds?). I haven't felt it necessary to dismantle any of those slug shells apart to measure any components.
So the answer is, yes, in your .410 bore Mdl 24 you can shoot Federal, WW or Rem or other similar soft lead slugs.
But I'd advise against the use of harder slugs, unless you've measured the cartridge components. With the recent proliferation of new .410 shotgun ammo designed for the Taurus Judge and S&W Governor, which both have "chokes" large enough to pass a 45 Colt bullet (which measures up to .454"), there's often not enough information from the ammo manufacturer about the projectile size. The caution possibly applies to Winchester's "Self-Defense Ammunition, with 3 disks over 1/4 oz. shot and similar products.
So be careful out there!
