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Post by captcapsize on Apr 18, 2014 8:03:51 GMT -5
I have found that when shooting any full power .223 loads shell extraction becomes more difficult as the power goes up. Store bought .223's require extraction from a cleaning rod down the bore, a 5.56 military round locks the gun up so tight that I have to whack it on the edge of the very solid shooting bench while holding the lever in the open position. I suppose the chamber area is rough but without making a casting of the chamber I won't know for sure. Does anyone have a suggestion?
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Post by txbob on Apr 18, 2014 10:55:54 GMT -5
#1 I would close the action and use a feeler gauge to check how tight the gap between the barrel and receiver is.
#2 Insert a shell in the chamber while holding the extractor down and observe how deep the shell seats in the chamber.
#3 Inspect the fired case with an new case, the primer may be backing out of the pocket. Sometimes with stronger loads the primer will back out of the pocket enough to lock the action. Check for any unusual dimension changes such as bulges in the case or unusual elongation of the case. These could be some indicators of problems to be investigated further.
For observation comparison only: My .222 closes very tight .002 thousandth feeler gauge will not fit between the barrel and receiver. With a new shell inserted in the chamber as in #2 it seats with .003 thousandth out of the chamber making a tight fit when the action is closed.
Checking new Hornady .222 ammo the primer seats about .003 thousandth deep in the primer pocket. Checking
5 fired shells the primers extend on the average of about .007 thousandth out of the pocket and does not cause any undue problems opening the action.
I hope this information helps and others on the forum might have more experience and insight with this issue.
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Post by captcapsize on Apr 19, 2014 9:26:21 GMT -5
The lockup is tight, wouldn't be able to get a feeler guage in there. It isn't a primer issue, it is a brass sticking to chamber wall problem. My light squirrel loads are no problem. They extract and finger pull no problem.
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Post by cw on Apr 19, 2014 18:47:16 GMT -5
Sounds like you have a pressure issue... 5.56 can run at higher pressure and cause these problems in guns with ''tight'' chambers such as I suspect yours has.
May moons ago, I bought a brand new Remington 788 in 22/250. I was never able to shoot factory ammo in that gun, the rounds stuck in the chamber. I loaded my own and stuck with starting loads. That gun was a tack driver and I never again had a problem. OOH and brass lasted FOR EVER!!!
Try different ammo until you fond some that dosent stik and shoots accurate enough for your uses and stick with it OR take up reloading.
CW
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Post by hairytully on Apr 19, 2014 22:18:19 GMT -5
Hi Captcapsize,
I have experienced this issue too in my .223/12G. Reloads with 70gn Speer Semi-Spitzer round nose and 53gn Barnes TSX, both long projectiles, have caused stiff opening, up to the lockup of action you describe.
Even though I have reduced the powder maybe the pressure is expanding the case against the "bolt face" locking up the action. However 55gn Nosler BT loaded hot gave good accuracy 1MOA at 200m with no action issues.
I had some great advice from Vancovermike in another thread, to treat the Savage24 .223 1-14" twist barrels like a .222 with more powder. I have tried several shorter heavy projectiles 55-70gn, with most being barely stabilized and struggling to keep under 2MOA with flyers. 63gn Sierra was an exception and quite good.
As you found lower pressure loads work fine and there are plenty of projectiles to chose from in the 33-53gn range that should be accurate and screaming out of a 1-14" twist. I'm reluctantly accepting that my 223/12 is at its best a varminting rig, not a bench rest long range rifle. If I want a heavy projectile I'm going to the 12G barrel. Savage 24s in particular seem to have their own preferences and personalities.
I hope you figure out what your likes and have fun pushing the limits just a bit.
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Post by txbob on Apr 20, 2014 9:07:27 GMT -5
The lockup is tight, wouldn't be able to get a feeler guage in there. It isn't a primer issue, it is a brass sticking to chamber wall problem. My light squirrel loads are no problem. They extract and finger pull no problem. Yes with the light loads will not stretch the brass(as much) or cause the primers to back out or form to the chamber wall,and will not bind the action. A heaver load will do all three, and it will not take a lot to lock a action. If it was just fire forming to the chamber wall it would not bind the action it would just be hard to extract,but with the action binding something is putting pressure between the barrels and action. Measure the dimension difference between the fired brass of both the light and heavy loads and new brass,I know it's time consuming but I think it will show what is causing the binding problem. |
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spy
Rank Stranger
Posts: 11 
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Post by spy on Apr 20, 2014 11:49:20 GMT -5
I've also heard that military brass can be thinner and therefore more prone to over-expand in civilian guns. It also makes some military brass unusable for reloading.txbob's suggestion to measure the fired brass is right on the mark.
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Post by vancmike on Apr 20, 2014 13:15:05 GMT -5
I'd first take the largest stiff chamber brush that will fit and clean the bejesus out of the chamber. Use a blue-safe cleaner (Hoppe's #9, etc). Slop some in, let it sit, clean, then repeat.
Sounds simplistic, but it's surprising how much crud there may be in there, even if you can't see it.
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Post by captcapsize on Apr 21, 2014 8:03:33 GMT -5
Yep, I'll try all the above. I'll post the results. Thanks for the suggestions.
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Post by captcapsize on May 21, 2014 21:24:20 GMT -5
So far nothing has helped. I will try polishing the chamber next. Even a steel case load binds it up and has to be poked out with a cleaning rod.
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Post by glocknutt on May 26, 2014 6:54:59 GMT -5
Fellas, the 223 bbl is NOT designed to use 5.56 mm ammo, the pressures are way to high, i build ars and know that its ok to use 223 in a 556 bbl but not the other way around. the 5.56 has a pressure like that of the .222 mag rnd.
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Post by cw on May 26, 2014 17:12:39 GMT -5
Fellas, the 223 bbl is NOT designed to use 5.56 mm ammo, the pressures are way to high, i build ars and know that its ok to use 223 in a 556 bbl but not the other way around. the 5.56 has a pressure like that of the .222 mag rnd. Mentioned that a while back.. fell on deaf ears. 
I agree BTW.
CW
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Post by vancmike on Jun 4, 2014 14:13:54 GMT -5
Fellas, the 223 bbl is NOT designed to use 5.56 mm ammo, the pressures are way to high, i build ars and know that its ok to use 223 in a 556 bbl but not the other way around. the 5.56 has a pressure like that of the .222 mag rnd. Mentioned that a while back.. fell on deaf ears.
I agree BTW.
CW
Not only the above, but any 5.56 bullets heavier/longer than 55 gr. will not only (usually) create higher pressures, but is totally unsuitable for Mdl 24's 1-14 pitch..... ....and so on.... |
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