24F Rifle Twist Rate and Bullet Stability

That's what what .223's were made for. All this fast twist stuff came from the government to get it to stabilize tracer rounds and later heavier bullets, trying to make it into something it isn't.

Very interesting info. I posted a question on another thread here because I recently got a 223 over 20 gauge.

cas and odell23 seem to be on track, but slightly off according to the info I got from Cartridges of the World and from several web sources. And your measurements are not what Savage told me.

The 222 originally had a twist rate of 1:14, then went to 1:12 when trying to meet newer mil specs. The 223 (or 5.56) was actually a new cartridge developed for a twist rate of 1:9 for the initial cartridge M193 and 223, 55grain; then went to a 1:7 twist for the 62grain M855. The 222 had been modified to it's limits already, so the 223 was developed as a new cartridge to replace it. It was not a modification of the 222. Since the original twist rate for the 223 is 1:9, they were never designed or intended for the slower 1:12.

Savage informed me that all of their 223 barrels are either 1:9 or 1:7. Their 222 barrels were a twist rate of 1:14 or 1:12. However, they also said that they do not have complete records for the older models as Savage changed ownership in 1995. The Savage 24 was not discontinued until 2007, so many were made under this new ownership and many, many more under the older ownerships and managements. So it is quite possible that Savage does not actually know just what the twist rates are in the different years of production.

This begs a couple more questions. As I've read an almost equal number of people who say theirs are tack drivers to those who say theirs are unstable or not accurate at any reasonable distance: I have to wonder --- Did Savage maybe use up their excess 222 barrels by just chambering them for the 223? This different twist rate could certainly explain the inconsistencies. Most everything I've seen from someone who has re-chambered their 222 to a 223 says they are more accurate with slower, lighter bullets.

If there are some out there with the slower twist and some with the faster twist that the 223 was designed for. It could certainly make a major difference in the accuracy. The lighter, slower bullets that have similar ballistics to the 222 would stabilize in the slow rate just like the 222s did; while the heavier, faster 223s would not. Seems like any of them should stabilize fine in the faster twist barrels.

Most of my info comes from trying to do some extensive research on the differences between the 5.56 NATO and the 223. A web search of the comparison between 5.56 and 223 will give you some really great history of the cartridges and their development. Also, as much info as I could find on the Savage 24 in this caliber.

Hopefully, some of this info may be somewhat helpful or at least a little interesting. Now I'm certainly curious to see what the actual twist rate on mine is, and maybe if we get enough others to check theirs; we may be able to explain the inconsistencies from one gun to the next. I kind of just always thought it was a quality control issue during the years of financial difficulties for the company.

Actually, the 223 originally was a varmint round, and was intended for 40-50 gr bullets. The wiz kids in the Kenned admin decided to make it into a man killer by putting the too heavy to stabilize 55 gr bullets in it. The rest is AR history.

Back to the Savage 24.........they were NEVER meant to stabilize heavy bullets! Think also about WHEN they were still being made. The SS109/M855 (62 gr bullets) STARTED in late 80's. The vast majority of Savage 24's out there are from before then, so they never thought about using heavy bullets in them. They will also have .223 chambers and as such have very short leades going into the rifling, which if you reload you already know. Switch to some 40-50 gr bullets, and they become tack drivers usually. BUT TAKE YOUR TIME!!!!!!!!!!!! Remember, the upper rifle barrel heating up while the lower shotgun barrel does not will result in vertical strings, usually (but not always) going down as that barrel gets hot!

My 24F loves winchester 45gr JHP (I think I have at least 7 40 round boxes in the ammo safe)---it shoots them like nutting you would believe
I can make a crow turn into a black puff of feathers!!!!

No Mike the snake hunters were more of political "show" than a real attempt to curb the problem
If and when I see a snake I'll just blow its head off and leave it for the buzzards or gators!!!LOL

"Savage Arms catalog from the year 2000, which includes the Savage 24F in it's contents, showing the rate of twist at 1 in 9" for the 223 Rem..."

In that year (and since then and, no doubt, some years prior). However, there's also no doubt that Savage chambered some .223 Rem in barrels that were originally intended for the .222 Rem., and subsequently in 1/14" twist.

The lesson is, if you have a .223 Rem produced in the earlier years, check the twist.