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Post by jeffb1911 on Apr 5, 2013 11:02:38 GMT -5
Congrats on the birth of your daughter!
As far as the history/twist rate of the Savage 24 guns, does anyone know when the last 24's were made? i know they sold them for several years off of the parts stockpile they had, but if the last barrels were actually made in the late 90's, then that could explain why none of us has ever seen a 24F with a 1 in 9 twist.
The way the bullet stability issue was explained to me was to imagine a ballet dancer or figure skater. Their weight does not change, but when they are "spread out" so to speak, they can turn slower and remain stable. When they pull it all in, and reach higher, they need to spin faster to stay stable. The RKI (Reasonably Knowledgeable Individual-no one is truly an expert) that taught me these things pointed out that the longer a bullet it, the more stability it needs. He was loading some early Barnes X bullets, which were IIRC 55 grain, but the length of 62's. They would not stabilize in slower twist barrels, but would in 1/7 or 1/9 just fine.
Does the added ballistics of heavy 223 bullets really do much for us? Probably not at the distances we will be using a Savage 24! If you need to reach out that much farther, we probably need to be using something a little more specialized! Hate to admit it, but even my little M4 carbon 15 Bushmaster is more accurate after about three shots than my Savage 24's have ever been after the same.
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Post by vancmike on Apr 10, 2013 13:03:24 GMT -5
I'll add to the congratulations. I have 2 daughters; when they each reached about age 12, we were researching convents in Switzerland, but fortunately, they reached adulthood and have been doing well.....and it's all worth it.
Back to bullets: I'm with Jeff; for many years, hunters were doing quite well, thank you, with the proven accuracy of the triple-deuce and its 50 gr. bullets. Why fix something that's not broken?
Well, it's only because of military "needs".....and the well-documented politics of the 5.56x45 cartridge.....that the faster twists and heavier bullets were deemed necessary (revamping NATO to an already-established cartridge....e.g., .243 Win....was never seriously contemplated.
On the other hand, it's much easier for an individual to move up or down in cartridge size.
When I was talking about pigs, the shotgun slug available to a Mdl 24 user completely slipped my mind! (dope-slap....especially on this forum). I've shot deer (OK, once) with a 12-gauge slug, but never used a 20-gauge slug on any game. Of course it would be adequate on smaller porcine critters.
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Post by bigkelly on Apr 10, 2013 18:42:13 GMT -5
Now that I own a 24 in 223/20 I'm looking forward to pig shooting-I'm thinking 223 in a 45 gr or maybe a 55 gr round and #4 20 ga buck--I say pig shooting as opposed to pig hunting because its really not that hard to find one here!!!! I saw 4 along side I-75 just yesterday--they always find the hole in the fence!
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Post by odell23 on Apr 11, 2013 9:18:51 GMT -5
There are 3 different guns that need to be addressed to get the bigger picture. First is the Model 24V Series D.
Production of the original 24V started around 1966-67. When first released, it was only available in .222 Rem which at the time were light bullets requiring the long 1:14 twist. The 30-30 was added to the 24V-A in the 1970's and continued this way through the 24V Series B and Series C. The 24V Series D debuted in the 1979 catalog and .223 Rem added shortly thereafter. All of the 24V guns in .222 and .223 had these lighter bullet long twist rates.
When the company failed and Ron Coburn took over in 1988 he dropped all of the Savage models and refocused on the Model 110. However he had some left over parts from the 24V and his designers set about revamping the old 24 design. There was a transitionary period with guns I've been referring to as the 24VF transition which either contain a mixture of 24V and 24F parts, or are 24F guns in every way only they are marked 24V. This is what the "stockpile of parts" you reffered to was really all about.
Enter the 24F-12 Turkey and the 24F Predator models. The 24F-12T was built with hunters (and specifically turkey hunters) in mind. However it came in .22 hornet, .222 Rem, or .223 Rem and only over 12 gauge. This is where the 1:12 comes in to benchmark with other guns and available ammunition. It appears in catalogs from 1989 to 1994.
The early 24F Predator (identified by the drilled and tapped riser found on top of the rifle barrel) was similar to the 24F-12T except that it also was chambered for 20 gauge and came in extra calibers like .22lr and .30-30 Win. The same twist rate of 1:12 was found here also. It was in catalogs from 1989 to roughly 2000 (still verifying the end date).
The late 24F Predator (identified by the L-shaped bracket scope mounting fixture which bolted into the support bar on the right side of the breech between the two barrels) added the .17hmr to the family. The twist rate of the .223 Rem here was reduced to 1:9. This appears in catalogs from ~2001 (still verifying the start date) to the end of production in 2007.
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Post by vancmike on Apr 13, 2013 14:34:34 GMT -5
Thanks odell....can't wait for your book.
Maybe put it on Kindle?! Would production costs be less?
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Post by hairytully on Apr 29, 2013 3:31:18 GMT -5
Hi Guys thanks for the congratz on my little girl. Surprisingly I have made it to the range to test some loads. The challenge, can projectiles heavier than 50gn be hand loaded to stabilize in a 223Rem 1-14 twist? Yes, but life is like a box of chocolates and you never know what your gona get, until you try. My rifle testing these loads is a Savage 24, .223Rem/12G 1-14 twist with a 3-9X 40mm Nikon Coyote scope. http--farm9.staticflickr.com-8262-8692291286_616a73e0d2_b.jpg [/img] I loaded up several flavours and shapes of projectiles, from 40 to 70 grains to discover which would stabilize and be useful loads for hunting. More to follow, but I'm going to see if I can figure out how to insert my photos in the story.
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Post by hairytully on Apr 30, 2013 0:25:18 GMT -5
1st try HTML <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/95393724@N08/8695242232/" title="223 Projectiles Tested by hairytully, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8546/8695242232_b9fc4ae0e5.jpg" width="368" height="490" alt="223 Projectiles Tested"></a>[/img] 2nd try Link 3rd try BB code [img src=" farm9.staticflickr.com/8402/8695250372_bcf214dcb9.jpg"] 200m 63gn Sierra by hairytully, on Flickr[/img] Hopefully some time soon Flickr will show my photos of projectiles and the groups achieved. Thanks for recommending the 63gn Sierra SP $0.27 Sg1.0. It shoots great 1 MOA out to 200m & restores my faith that its worth trying some marginal loads to see what the rifle likes.
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Post by woodsbum on Apr 30, 2013 5:39:16 GMT -5
Glad the 63 gr Seirra's showed some promise for you. Reinforces my feelings about bullet shape and length being as, if not more important than exact weight in the slower twist barrels.
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Post by md4657 on May 5, 2013 15:00:38 GMT -5
Just joined the Savage 24 club. I won a 223/12 at a local auction last night. Has cross bolt safty and a choke tube. I hope it has a fast twist as i have cases of 55/62 grain ammo. Cost $550. Has lite rust. but cleaned up with oil and steelwool.
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Post by hairytully on May 8, 2013 4:18:13 GMT -5
Welcome Mate, the 223/12G is a great combo. You will just have to give those 55-60gn a go and see if you rifle barrel likes them. If you read the forum there is a wealth of knowledge on these Savage 24s & 223 projectiles. A few tips from this thread, shoot your groups from a cold to touch barrel, 3 shots then rest. As the barrel warms up, my groups go from 1MOA to 2 MOA on a good day. That's with my scope on 9X. [img src=" farm9.staticflickr.com/8402/8695250372_bcf214dcb9.jpg"] 200m 63gn Sierra by hairytully, on Flickr[/img] <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/95393724@N08/8695250372/" title="200m 63gn Sierra by hairytully, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8402/8695250372_bcf214dcb9.jpg" width="368" height="490" alt="200m 63gn Sierra"></a>[/img] I was surprised to get 2" group at 200m from 63gn Sierra SP & ok results from 70gn Speer SP that needs further load development, but tumbling at 25m from the longer 69gn match HPBT. So a shorter SP of a similar weight may give you better results. [img src=" farm9.staticflickr.com/8122/8695250578_b97bf9070d.jpg"] 25m 69gn Remmington Match by hairytully, on Flickr[/img] <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/95393724@N08/8695250578/" title="25m 69gn Remmington Match by hairytully, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8122/8695250578_b97bf9070d.jpg" width="368" height="490" alt="25m 69gn Remmington Match"></a>[/img] Good Luck, let us know how you go.
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